the 11th day of the 11th month at the 11th hour...

[Frank Matthews]

In Flanders Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[Tom Peel]

Post by Frank Matthews
In Flanders Fields
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

11:11 on 11th November, marking the time and date of the Armistice, and
comemorated as Rememberance Day in the UK, is also the traditional start
of the carnival season in Germany, which ends on Shrove Tuesday/Ash
Wednesday.
Can any native Germans comment whether this is pure coincidence?

T.

[Go Fig]

Post by Tom Peel

Post by Frank Matthews
In Flanders Fields
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

11:11 on 11th November, marking the time and date of the Armistice, and
comemorated as Rememberance Day in the UK,

Is the Government closed ?

jay
Thu Nov 11, 2004

Post by Tom Peel
is also the traditional start
of the carnival season in Germany, which ends on Shrove Tuesday/Ash
Wednesday.
Can any native Germans comment whether this is pure coincidence?
T.

[The Reids]

Following up to Go Fig

Post by Go Fig

Post by Tom Peel
11:11 on 11th November, marking the time and date of the Armistice, and
comemorated as Rememberance Day in the UK,

Is the Government closed ?

Nothing is closed, there are services at war memorials across the
country and a televised one at the Cenotaph in Whitehall London.
Two minutes silence is sort of observed, traffic does not
generally stop. There seems nowadays to be commemoration on the
11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month as well as on the
nearest Sunday.
Paper poppies are worn, proceeds to war veterans. I heard there
has only been one post war year in which a British soldier has
not been killed in action.
HMS Belfast on the Thames has two huge poppies on it and at 6pm
two old Dakotas dropped poppies along the Thames. In recent years
rather than dying away it is being marked more fully, for
instance silence was one minute, now two.
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/london312x.htm"

I usually find myself standing next to the PC feeling slightly
silly, then very moved when the single bugler plays the Last Post
at the end.

[Go Fig]

Post by The Reids
Following up to Go Fig

Post by Go Fig

Post by Tom Peel
11:11 on 11th November, marking the time and date of the Armistice, and
comemorated as Rememberance Day in the UK,

Is the Government closed ?

Nothing is closed,

In the U.S., all Gov. agencies are closed along with banks and many
schools. It is a bit odd, with all your holidays, you don't include
Nov. 11th.

jay
Fri Nov 12, 2004

Post by The Reids
there are services at war memorials across the
country and a televised one at the Cenotaph in Whitehall London.
Two minutes silence is sort of observed, traffic does not
generally stop. There seems nowadays to be commemoration on the
11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month as well as on the
nearest Sunday.
Paper poppies are worn, proceeds to war veterans. I heard there
has only been one post war year in which a British soldier has
not been killed in action.
HMS Belfast on the Thames has two huge poppies on it and at 6pm
two old Dakotas dropped poppies along the Thames. In recent years
rather than dying away it is being marked more fully, for
instance silence was one minute, now two.
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/london312x.htm"
I usually find myself standing next to the PC feeling slightly
silly, then very moved when the single bugler plays the Last Post
at the end.

[The Reids]

Following up to Go Fig

Post by Go Fig

Post by The Reids
Nothing is closed,

In the U.S., all Gov. agencies are closed along with banks and many
schools. It is a bit odd, with all your holidays, you don't include
Nov. 11th.

Yes. What do people do in US? If it turns into a holiday is that
what we want?

[Donna Evleth]

Post by Tom Peel

Post by Frank Matthews
In Flanders Fields
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

11:11 on 11th November, marking the time and date of the Armistice, and
comemorated as Rememberance Day in the UK, is also the traditional start
of the carnival season in Germany, which ends on Shrove Tuesday/Ash
Wednesday.
Can any native Germans comment whether this is pure coincidence?
T.

Armistice Day, as 11th November is called here, was commemorated. On TV
tonight they had an interview with one of the 15 remaining survivors. He is
108. He only looked about 85, and he was clearheaded and articulate. He
was quite able to tell us about the hell and futility of World War I. He
was not one of those who couldn't take the strain, and mutinied. In fact he
was chosen to be part of a firing squad to execute them. But he got out of
it. He went on to participate also in World War II, and then in the French
Resistance. "Not bad for a little guy," was the way he put it.

Donna Evleth

[Frank F. Matthews]

Post by Donna Evleth

Post by Tom Peel

Post by Frank Matthews
In Flanders Fields
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

11:11 on 11th November, marking the time and date of the Armistice, and
comemorated as Rememberance Day in the UK, is also the traditional start
of the carnival season in Germany, which ends on Shrove Tuesday/Ash
Wednesday.
Can any native Germans comment whether this is pure coincidence?
T.

Armistice Day, as 11th November is called here, was commemorated. On TV
tonight they had an interview with one of the 15 remaining survivors. He is
108. He only looked about 85, and he was clearheaded and articulate. He
was quite able to tell us about the hell and futility of World War I. He
was not one of those who couldn't take the strain, and mutinied. In fact he
was chosen to be part of a firing squad to execute them. But he got out of
it. He went on to participate also in World War II, and then in the French
Resistance. "Not bad for a little guy," was the way he put it.
Donna Evleth

I'm not convinced the an inability to take the strain is what caused the
French Army to mutiny. I suspect that a large part of it was caused by
a great number of incompetent senior officers who gave orders which made
no sense and were impossible. In fact once the senior command was
changed and the troops began to have some faith in the leadership the
mutiny dissolved. All during the mutiny the troops made it clear that
they were willing to fight to resist German advances. What they had
ceased to be willing to do was insane charges into unreduced defenses
for the glory of an insane command.

They remind me of the US troops who mutinied in Iraq over insane
instructions to take wild risks to deliver contaminated fuel. When the
troops lose confidence in their commanders then mutiny is a logical
result. Well at the lower level fragging instead of mutiny but when the
high command goes bad there will be hell to pay.

[Runge]

Aaaargh dont start an Iraq topic again !!

Post by Frank F. Matthews

Post by Donna Evleth

Post by Tom Peel

Post by Frank Matthews
In Flanders Fields
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

11:11 on 11th November, marking the time and date of the Armistice, and
comemorated as Rememberance Day in the UK, is also the traditional start
of the carnival season in Germany, which ends on Shrove Tuesday/Ash
Wednesday.
Can any native Germans comment whether this is pure coincidence?
T.

Armistice Day, as 11th November is called here, was commemorated. On TV
tonight they had an interview with one of the 15 remaining survivors. He is
108. He only looked about 85, and he was clearheaded and articulate. He
was quite able to tell us about the hell and futility of World War I. He
was not one of those who couldn't take the strain, and mutinied. In fact he
was chosen to be part of a firing squad to execute them. But he got out of
it. He went on to participate also in World War II, and then in the French
Resistance. "Not bad for a little guy," was the way he put it.
Donna Evleth

I'm not convinced the an inability to take the strain is what caused the
French Army to mutiny. I suspect that a large part of it was caused by a
great number of incompetent senior officers who gave orders which made no
sense and were impossible. In fact once the senior command was changed
and the troops began to have some faith in the leadership the mutiny
dissolved. All during the mutiny the troops made it clear that they were
willing to fight to resist German advances. What they had ceased to be
willing to do was insane charges into unreduced defenses for the glory of
an insane command.
They remind me of the US troops who mutinied in Iraq over insane
instructions to take wild risks to deliver contaminated fuel. When the
troops lose confidence in their commanders then mutiny is a logical
result. Well at the lower level fragging instead of mutiny but when the
high command goes bad there will be hell to pay.

[The Reids]

Following up to Frank F. Matthews

Post by Frank F. Matthews
I suspect that a large part of it was caused by
a great number of incompetent senior officers who gave orders which made
no sense and were impossible.

LIke the officer who ordered an advance across the Marne(?) on
that last morning getting a load of soldiers killed for f all.

[Frank F. Matthews]

Post by The Reids
Following up to Frank F. Matthews

Post by Frank F. Matthews
I suspect that a large part of it was caused by
a great number of incompetent senior officers who gave orders which made
no sense and were impossible.

LIke the officer who ordered an advance across the Marne(?) on
that last morning getting a load of soldiers killed for f all.

Actually the actions of senior officers in the time between the signing
of the armistice on 11/11 and the implementation at 11 o'clock was worse
than incompetence. I have variously heard it described as silly glory
chasing using other blokes lives and as having a nice toy to play with
and wanting to get as much in before someone took it away. In any case
several thousand lives were wasted and ten thousand or so were blighted
by these bastards. I just wish that fragging had been invented earlier
and applied at senior levels. For this a bunch managed to get statues.
The congressional investigation in the US was finally suppressed after
discovering just how bad it had been. As one program I saw about the
situation said of a division commander who lost several hundred of his
men The only thing that he risked was getting his boots wet by the river
in a photo op. One person who described an assault (I think at Mons)
recalled three dead who had a campaign medal given to those who fought
there on the first day of the war. They went through the entire war
only to die in a useless assault after the armistice had been signed.

It makes you understand how a bastard like McArthur could disregard
orders and brutalize the bonus marchers. Many senior officers had no
regard for their men.

I only wish that the mutinous french divisions had decided to shoot the
senior officers that they encountered.